City Council Minutes 10-13-2008 TransportationCouncil Minutes: October 13, 2008
MINUTES
SPECIAL MEETING - MONTICELLO C ITY COUNCIL
Monday October 13, 2008 - 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Clint Herbst, Wayne Mayer, Tom Perrault, Brian Stumpf and Susie
Wojchouski.
Members Absent: None
1. Call to Order.
The workshop meeting was called to order at 5:40 p.m.
2. Discussion of design modifications for the intersection of TH 25 and River Street.
City Engineer Bruce Westby briefly explained the modifications made to the intersection
under the existing pilot program. At a meeting on September 22, 2008 business owners and
residents commented on the pilot program. Staff later met with a representative of the
business owners to try to come up with some way to modify the intersection design to
accommodate needs of the business owners for convenient accessibility to their business.
Staff looked at modifications that included alert-in movement from northbound TH 25 to
West River Street, aright-in movement from TH 25 to East River Street and West River
Street and aright-out from West River Street to TH 25. The proposed modification was
taken to MnDOT on October 9, 2008. MnDOT had a number of concerns and cautioned
that any modification done now would have to carry over through the winter. MnDOT did
not want barrels at the intersection and had other concerns about snow removal. MnDOT
suggested that the right-in on northbound TH 25 to East River Street not be done because it
would promote people using it as a cut through. Bruce Westby submitted a revised
drawing showing what MnDOT would approve.
The issue raised previously by business owners about speeding in the alley could be
addressed by the installation of speed bumps in the alley. Tom Perrault asked who owned
the alley and Jeff O'Neill responded that it was a private alley.
Clint Herbst asked about some type of permanent curbing being installed. Bruce Westby
indicated that was not proposed because of the cost and also because it is questionable
whether curbing could be completed before winter. Clint Herbst said the City would prefer
to keep the left turn onto River Street. He said was reluctant to wait the additional time to
see if MnDOT would allow what the City wanted at this intersection.
Brian Stumpf asked what benefit was derived from leaving the River Street access open
that could not be obtained by using Broadway. He expressed his concern about safety
hazards if things are opened up on the east side.
George Larson, 606 East River Street spoke stating he didn't want to see any changes to
the intersection. The changes the City made has significantly reduced traffic in their
Council Minutes: October 13, 2008
neighborhood. Before there was considerable truck traffic and deliveries because of the
continuous construction on the hospital property. He would like to see the east side with
both lanes closed. He noted when TH 25 was widened to four lane it was the intent that
the intersection would be blocked off all the way.
Clint Herbst reiterated that this is a pilot project. If the City finds the traffic counts
increase with the proposed modification, the City could look at different alternatives. The
City should do more testing of the various options until it can be determined exactly what
is the best option for this intersection. Clint Herbst said the scenario the City wants to go
with is what they have now but without the barricades. Brian Stumpf said if the City is
looking at modifications they should look at doing it in the summer not now. MnDOT said
they would not allow the City to put barrels out there. Brian Stumpf felt the pilot project
should be done at the appropriate time which would be in the summer and not with winter
approaching. Clint Herbst said the City has to either do something more permanent or else
go back to utilizing the signal light.
Bruce Westby asked if a right-in was deemed necessary and desirable. MnDOT would not
be disagreeable to leaving the existing access in. The access should be strictly a business
access for the local businesses such as the Workforce Center, etc. Wayne Mayer felt both
of the lanes should be kept closed. Wayne Mayer said he wanted to close the right-in and
right-out going south back onto TH 25. Wayne Mayer brought up the double blockade on
River Street. On the north side of the hair salon antique store he would like to see a
right-out onto TH 25. In order to get the right-out/ the left turn lane would be gone.
Wayne Mayer asked Steve Johnson, a local business owner, why he felt the left turn lane
from TH 25 onto River Street was necessary. Steven Johnson said the issue was access
and ease for customers to get to the businesses in the area. He said the City's goal was to
reduce traffic in the residential area of East and West River Street. The way to reduce
traffic on River Street is to close the street off at TH 25. Steve Johnson suggested instead
of closing it off at River Street the City should close it off 2 or 3 blocks east and west of
the intersection. Steve Johnson felt this option was not discussed fully by the Council.
Clint Herbst said one option was to leave the signal on. He felt by leaving the intersection
open but restricting access it would better serve the area. Steve Johnson believes moving it
down 2-3 blocks would be best for everyone. Brian Stumpf said he could see that working
on West River Street but he is opposed to it on East River Street. Steve Johnson said that
traffic in a business area is desirable. He said he is okay with the light at the intersection.
On the east side of River Street he felt the City should slide the barricades back to Cedar
Street and on the west side the barricades should be moved back to Locust Street.
George Larson expressed concern about the amount of traffic in the summer and the speed
at which the traffic is moving. He stated it is a hazardous situation.
Steve Johnson felt it was not expedient to put in barriers at this time. Clint Herbst said the
day the intersection was closed showed the impact on traffic. He did not feel the light
should be on again. Clint Herbst added this is just the first piece of the puzzle. He felt the
City's proposal to MnDOT was a good one.
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Council Minutes: October 13, 2008
Steve Johnson disagreed with Mayor Herbst. He felt his proposal would still keep cars out
of the residential area. He thinks it would take care of the problem and that all parties
would benefit from having the street closed further down from the intersection.
Clint Herbst suggested the first half block on the east side should be one way. Wayne
Mayer said if they look at making it one way, the City would have to do something to
address the concerns with the truck and delivery activity and suggested some signing
would have to be done.
The traffic count information that was submitted to the Council was reviewed. Chuck
Rickart explained the counts were taken in the fall of 2007 for a two day period. The
counts were averages. Chuck Rickart stated that MnDOT's criteria for signals is the
amount of traffic approaching the intersection. With 1000 cars per day being taken off the
road it will be more difficult to justify the need for the signal. There is also a site distance
issue that would be of concern to MnDOT.
Tom Perrault agreed with the suggestion from Steve Johnson about blocking the street
further back from the intersection. Wayne Mayer asked about controlling traffic at this
intersection. Tom Perrault stated he would have the signals back on.
Lloyd Hilgart, 2590 Meadow Oak Lane asked how much the traffic was reduced on West
River Street. The staff responded that it was reduced by 1,000 vehicles per day. Bruce
Westby said he didn't recall receiving any concerns from residents about having to go onto
Broadway and then going back to River Street. Clint Herbst said his concern is not so
much with the traffic coming across the River but how that traffic impacts local traffic.
Lloyd Hilgart asked if there is a lot of commercial traffic on West River Street. Chuck
Rickart said they didn't specifically count trucks but rather counted all vehicles. Lloyd
Hilgart asked if it was even necessary to have a blockade on West River Street.
Bruce Westby said if access was open on River Street there would be signage in place to
reduce the cut through traffic. Wayne Mayer said habits die hard and signage would not
necessarily eliminate the problem. Wayne Mayer felt there had to be some way to let
people know they are entering onto a one way. Lloyd Hilgart felt the closing should be
moved down one block and "No thru traffic" signs placed on Cedar Street. Wayne Mayer
disagreed with the "No thru traffic" signs. Clint Herbst concurred saying it would be easier
to enforce the "No Truck Traffic" than the "No thru Traffic".
Joshua Dickinson, 600 West 4th Street, stated he would like to have a left turn lane on West
River Street from northbound TH 25 and a left turn from River Street heading north on
TH 25. Using Broadway does not give the businesses sufficient access. He also
commented on the traffic on 4th Street and wondered if the City would consider closing
streets to reduce the traffic for any other residential street. Clint Herbst said he could not
agree to a left turn going north on TH 25. Joshua Dickinson stated it is difficult making a
left turn onto Broadway from Walnut. He said customers want to get in to businesses
conveniently and leave conveniently but now they can't do either.
Clint Herbst stated he was disappointed with what MnDOT agreed to and would like to
tweak it. He emphasized strongly that he did not feel the light should be on again. Susie
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Council Minutes: October 13, 2008
Wojchouski and Wayne Mayer concurred the light should be back on as a last resort if
everything else fails. They felt that the left turn lane north on TH 25 going to West River
Street should be kept open. Brian Stumpf agreed with that but felt the blockade should be
moved down a block. Clint Herbst asked about taking some counts first and seeing what
impact there is before making a final decision.
Bruce Westby reviewed the option: 1) Extend the barricade through the intersection which
would open it up to right-in/right-out; 2) Extend one way up to the parking lot; 3) Re-time
the signal lights on TH 25. Brian Stumpf didn't feel that there should be any access onto
East River Street. Chuck Rickart suggested extending the barrier further down to keep
people from cheating into the lane to make a left turn.
Clint Herbst pointed out that this is a pilot program which would go for 60 days and if it
didn't improve the situation, the City could go back to what they are doing now. Bruce
Westby explained that what the City is doing now would not be approved by MnDOT.
Wayne Mayer said his only concern is the left turn off northbound TH 25 onto West River
Street because the intersection is not a controlled intersection. Brian Stumpf concurred
with Wayne Mayer.
SUSIE WOJCHOUSKI MOVED TO APPROVE A 60 DAY PILOT PROGRAM
MODIFYING THE INTERSECTION OF TH 25/RIVER STREET THAT WOULD
BARRICADE EAST AND WEST RIVER STREET BUT ALLOW FOR A LEFT HAND
TURN GOING NORTHBOUND ON TH 25; ALLOWING NO ACCESS ONTO EAST
RIVER STREET FROM TH 25; A RIGHT-IN/RIGHT-OUT ON WEST RIVER STREET
TO TH 25; RE-TIME THE SIGNALS AND TO TAKE SOME CURRENT TRAFFIC
COUNTS. WAYNE MAYER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED
WITH TOM PERRAULT VOTING IN OPPOSITION.
3. Adiourn.
WAYNE MAYER MOVED TO ADJOURN AT 6:58 P.M. BRIAN STUMPF
SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Recording Secretary
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