Planning Commission Minutes 05-02-2006MINUTES
MONTICELLO PLANNING COMMISSION
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006
6:00 PM
Commissioners: Rod Dragsten, Lloyd Hilgart, Craig Schibonski, William Spartz,
and Sandy Suchy
Council Liaison: Glen Posusta
Staff: Jeff O'Neill, Angela Schumann and Steve Grittman — NAC
1. Call to order. -
Chairman Dragsten called the meeting to order at 6:00 PM and declared a quorum.
2. Approval of the minutes of the regular Planning Commission meeting of Tuesday. April 4th,
2006.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SPARTZ TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF TUESDAY, APRIL 4', 2006.
is MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SUCHY. MOTION CARRIED, 5-0.
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3. Consideration of adding items to the agenda.
O'Neill clarified that item number 8 actually pertains to an update on the YMCA property in
relationship to the comprehensive plan amendment considered at the previous meeting.
O'Neill added as item 9 consideration to appoint two members to serve on the comprehensive
plan update task force.
Dragsten asked about the informational flyer included in the Commission's packet. Dragsten
indicated interest in attending the comprehensive plan session.
4. Citizen comments.
NONE.
5. Public Hearing — Consideration of a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Concept
Stage Planned Unit Development for Rosewood Heights, an 8-unit townhome unit
development in an R-2 (Single and Two -Family Residential) District.
Applicant: Minnesota Development Agency. LLC
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Kimberly Thompson, NAC, illustrated the site, stating that the concept design is for 8
townhome units. The layout includes two 4-unit structures with a combination of side
and front loaded garages along a 20' drive aisle.
Thompson stated that for a PUD, the ordinance requirements allow for flexibility from
performance standards, under the understanding the site and building design will be held
to a higher standard. The side -load garage has been incorporated for that purpose.
Thompson noted that while a 20' drive aisle design is allowed, it allows for no on -street
parking. The City required 5 parking spaces per unit in a recently proposed concept stage
PUD. Thompson reported that this concept allows for only 4 spaces, about 5 spaces short
of the actual requirement for guest parking. Thompson indicated that during a review
meeting with the applicant, they stated that they could provide an off-street parking bay
for more guest parking. Staff also is concerned that the dead-end drive -aisle does not
provide for easy garbage or fire access. The driveway design, especially for -the end -
units, presents a difficult turning radius. The applicant has indicated that they are willing
to look at widening the drive aisle.
Thompson stated that the density of the site is 7.2 units per acre, while by comparison,
the density for the original plat of the City is approximately 5 units per acre. Thompson
also noted that the concept shown illustrates a limited amount of open space.
Thompson explained that another significant issue that will need to be addressed is that
by vacating the Palm Street right of way, the City would be cutting off potential access to
the lot to the west. A private street would eliminate the access, as well as potential access
for properties to the east and west of the site.
Engineering staff is looking at options on storm water issues, as there are some concerns
regarding drainage in the area. Thompson stated that the applicant is interested in
possibly doing a mirror image of this concept on the opposite side of the street, which
would limit setbacks for both rear and front yard and on -street parking.
Schibonski inquired who owns the Palm Street right of way. Thompson replied that the
City owns it, and would need to work out an agreement with property owners if vacated.
O'Neill stated that if the City likes the plan, they could work out a deal with the
applicant.
Dragsten asked if the street were vacated, would a cross easement be put in place for
access to the adjoining property. O'Neill responded that is an option. Dragsten asked if
this plan has been updated since staff made comments on the site plans. O'Neill stated
that while it hasn't been, the applicants have indicated willingness to respond to staff s
concerns. For example, the applicant has indicated they are willing to put in a dumpster
enclosure to solve the garbage access issue and would work with staff and the fire
department on the fire access.
0 Chairman Dragsten opened the public hearing.
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Hearing no comment, Chairman Dragsten closed the public hearing.
Matt Froelich, Minnesota Development Agency, addressed the Commission. Froelich
stated that most of the issues have been discussed and can be addressed. Froelich stated
that they will need to bring a hydrant into the development, and can provide a 28' street
section to accommodate parking. He stated that as the units will be condos, there will be
an association to take care of garbage removal. Froelich stated that in response to access,
cross -easements are probably the best way to handle access to other properties. Froelich
showed an alternate sketch, noting that if they pave to the lot line, it also accommodates a
turn around.
Dragsten stated that he doesn't see anything that would stop the project; that the concept
gives the applicant direction on whether to move forward.
Suchy referenced the ghost plat, stating that because of the area, she has the impression it
might be too dense. Suchy asked if there a chance he would do single family. Froelich
stated he doesn't see the ghost plat happening as they would have had to tighten setbacks.
He indicated that he wants to concentrate on this project. Suchy asked if the concept
would include sidewalks, pathways, or centralized area for gathering. Froelich referred
to a possible ponding area as an open space amenity, stating that they have tried to work
on how to get rid of the water. Froelich stated that in their opinion, it is a City problem.
Suchy asked if they will landscape and maintain both the front and back of the units.
Froelich confirmed they would. He stated that the associated would plow the streets,
shovel drives, take car of garbage, maintenance, etc. Suchy stated that she likes the
concept of having economical housing for seniors and likes that the applicant tried to
side -load. She indicated that she does have concerns about the elderly making the turns.
Froelich stated they would work on that, they had included the side -load did it for
aesthetic purposes. Suchy commented on the garage size. She inquired if these are units
for the elderly, would Froelich consider moving the unit back to make them larger.
Froelich stated that they could, although the types of items that fill up a garage may be
ruled out by the association. Suchy stated her concern is for wheelchairs or walkers.
Froelich stated that the rear yard setbacks will need to be confirmed in making the
garages larger.
Spartz asked if they have a cost per unit at this time. Froelich stated that they are age -
targeted affordable senior housing. Spartz asked how the applicant plans to keep it
affordable, and still meet the standards of a PUD. Froelich stated that the affordability
comes from the size, as the units are about 1100 square feet. Froelich explained that the
unit size and the City delineating the right of way would help keep the units under
$150,000. Spartz stated that storm water is a concern and is glad that they plan to address
it. Spartz commented that he thinks the road does need to be 28' and agreed that the
garage sizes are small for handicap accessibility. Spartz also noted some concern
regarding density. Dragsten asked Spartz if he wanted the garages to be the minimum
code allowed by code. Spartz confirmed.
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Hilgart asked if they make road 28', would they lose some of the front yard setback.
Froelich responded that the road would be moved to the east instead. Right now, it is five
feet off the property line. Hilgart stated that he also would like to see the garages at 450
square feet. Froelich responded that they can look at that. Hilgart inquired what the
maximum density for this district is. O'Neill responded that the standard is 1 unit per
6,000 square feet, so the actual allowable density isn't far off what is allowed in the R-2.
Hilgart stated that his concern was that with the recent Ruff Auto PUD, the City indicated
that it would not allow that kind of density. He stated that the City needs to reconcile that
decision with this project.
Hilgart asked what amenities this project has that would allow for a PUD in terms of the
quality of the buildings, etc. Froelich stated that the standard seems to be floating and
that he doesn't know how to exceed a standard that doesn't exist. He commented that the
exterior -materials will be upgraded. Froelich indicated that the key is to remember that
this is a redevelopment and they need to work with the site. Dragsten asked if Hilgart's
concern is with the density and lack of open space. Hilgart confirmed. Froelich stated
that their green space exceeds the green space standard, although with a 28' road, that
changes. Dragsten stated that the question is the amenities for this number of units.
Schibonski commented that he likes what Froelich is trying to do for seniors who want to
be in the downtown area. Schibonski stated that the garage size was a concern and is an
issue for elderly people. Parking was also a concern, which Froelich is starting to
address. Engineering is an issue for him in terms of storm water, which needs to be
addressed at the next level. Schibonski also stated that garbage at the end of street in
dumpster can be a concern for seniors. Joint driveways make more sense. Froelich asked
if 28' street accommodates a garbage truck backing up. O'Neill stated that they are
trying to eliminate backing u; that is something we can look and talk about. Schibonski
agreed that the density seems too high for this space. Schibonski indicated that he is still
trying to grasp what kind of open space amenity the City would be getting for the PUD.
Dragsten asked what the front and side yard is in this plan. O'Neill stated that this can be
somewhat confusing to explain. The front yard is the shortest side frotning on a public
street, but the way the buildings are configured, the front of these buildings is the side.
According to the letter of the code, the plan meets our basic perimeter requirements.
Froelich stated that the backyard is 30'. Schibonski asked if 4f Street is the front.
O'Neill confirmed.
Dragsten indicated that he also had questions about the garages sizes and thinks they
should meet the code minimum. He referenced the access issue, noting that they had
talked about cross easements. Dragsten stated that the stacking shouldn't be a problem
with the 28' road. Dragsten inquired about the roof pitches, as the plans don't contain
that information. Froelich stated that the overall roofline would be 7:12 with 8:12 gables.
Froelich stated that if we change the garage fronts, they will need to work on architectural
detail. Dragsten asked for the size of the rear patios. Froelich answered that they are 7' x
10'. Drgasten stated it would be nice if they were a bit larger. Dragsten commented that
when this comes back, the Commission will be looking for an intense landscape plan.
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Dragsten asked about building materials. Froelich stated that what is shown in red will
be brick, although the color has not been not determined. The tan will be architectural
vinyl with shakes. Froelich stated that the garage doors are standard raised with windows.
Dragsten commented that the roofline should be broken up.
Dragsten stated that his other concern is density. It is a redevelopment area, but at the
same time, his concern is the number of units and then making them blend into the
neighborhood. He indicated that the project won't blend no matter what, but to be less
obtrusive, 8 units is a concern.
Suchy asked if it would help to move the buildings back. Dragsten stated that perhaps he
can offset the buildings.
Froelich responded that as far as fitting in, the south side is commercial and short of one
house, there are apartments in the area. O'Neill stated that the lot area per unit is close to
standard required.
Posusta noted that the applicant has provided more than the required amount of green
space. Schibonski clarified that widening the road takes most of that out. Posusta stated
that the Commission has to realize where this project is located. Dragsten stated that the
Commission is looking at how this will blend with older single family homes in the area.
Spartz stated that he would suggest 6 units to meet PUD standards. Hilgart asked if the
applicant increases the garage size and width of road, what the PUD would be for.
O'Neill stated that a PUD would still apply because they don't have access to a public
street and would need an association. Hilgart stated that in the end, the City would get an
association -maintained development, with little variation from the code. Hilgart stated
that he doesn't have a big problem with density, if it falls in line with the code. He
commented that his issue is consistency with previous reviews. O'Neill clarified that 4-6
units is the direction we gave developers for the Ruff project, as well. Thompson pointed
out that these are also smaller units.
Dragsten summarized that the major issues that the applicant will need to address at
development stage are the unit count, patio size, setbacks, drive aisle width, garage size,
open space and landscaping.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HILGART TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE
CONCEPT STAGE PUD, BASED ON A FINDING THAT WITH COMMENTS MADE
AT THE HEARING, THE PROJECT WILL MEET THE CITY' S INTENT FOR PUD
DESIGN.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SUCHY. MOTION CARRIED, 5-0.
Commissioner Suchy excused herself from the meeting.
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6. Public Hearinia — Consideration of a request for a Conditional Use Permit for Open and
Outdoor Storaize, Open and Outdoor Sales and DisWav and Minor Automobile Repair in a B-
4 (Regional Business) District. Applicant: Jeff s Dream, LLC/Moon Motors
Thomspon presented the staff report, illustrating the project's location. Thompson stated
that the guidelines for each of the conditional use permits were outlined within the staff
report. The applicants have met the majority of the requirements, so Thompson indicated
that her comments would be limited to the remaining issues outlined within the
conditions of approval.
Thompson reported that staff had met with the applicants to review the conditions. The
applicant is willing to provide fence detail for the outdoor storage area, which staff has
also requested to be paved. The applicants indicated that they are willing to work with
staff -on that issue. The site plan meets the minimum parking requirements, but does
require one additional handicap space. Thompson stated that the landscape plans show
two boulder display pads which will be visible from the freeway; the exact design will be
determined later.
Thompson stated that the total area of five product identification signs will be considered
as one sign to meet the code for number of signs allowed. While the entire banner as one
sign exceeds the code limits area area allowed, staff is willing to consider the area of each
sign separately in terms of area in order to conform. Thompson reported that another
issue is access for semis into the truck bay. The applicants have revised their plan to
widen this area and remove a parking space to allow for movements. Staff would
jrequest confirmation of the turning radius. Also, the lighting standards will need to be
landscaping with the parking lot islands. Thompson noted that grading, drainage and
erosion control plans are being reviewed and that the applicant will need to comply with
all building regulations in relationship to fuel.
Dragsten inquired about the test track. Thompson stated that the applicants have
indicated that they do not have an exact design, but it may be covered with a rubber
mulch.
Schibonski asked about a photometric plan for the open and outdoor storage area.
Thompson illustrated where the standard would be and what City standards are.
Schibonski clarified that they would need to convert one spot to a handicap space and
questioned whether it was included in the total parking calculation. Thompson referred
to the service enclosure which had been added and noted that the applicant would be
updating their parking calculations to correspond to that addition. Drgatsen suggested
they add the revised calculations as a part of Exhibit Z.
Chairman Dragsten opened the public hearing.
George Fantauzza, Nelson Building and Development, addressed the Commission on
behalf of the applicant. Fantauzza explained that they have revised the site plan in
response to staff s comments. Fantauzza noted that the each of the trailer parking spaces
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would actually count as two. He stated that they will redo the parking counts, which they
intend to meet. Fantauzza referred to the site plan, indicating that they are trying to
design the site to also accommodate a future building pad. The contours of the site
dictated where the building would be located. The building sits at highest part of
property facing I-94. Fantauzza noted that they would submit turning radius information
to staff on the truck bay. Landscaping efforts are focused on the building sides, with low
grasses at the front for visibility. The intent is to have some mounts for display purposes.
Fantauzza stated that the test track will not be used by the public, it will be used for the
mechanics. He indicated that the applicants would like to have a discussion about paving
within the fenced area. The fence will be a high grade steel fence with whatever
necessary for screening, but there is concern about black top.
Fantauzza briefly reviewed the elevations and materials of the building with the
Commission. Fantuazza noted that people are not going to see a lot of the back of the
building.
Schibonski asked what the test track would be made of as noise is a concern. Joel
Erickson, Moon Motorsports, addressed the Commission. Erickson stated that he had the
test track area in mind for ATV use. As it wouldn't be a dedicated track, it would
possibly just be green grass, or mulch and wood chips. Fantauzza stated that the intent is
to stay as environmentally friendly as possible. Schibonski clarified that employees
would not be using it. Erickson confirmed it would just be a mechanic area. Schibonski
indicated that he has no concern about that use.
Dragsten asked about paving the storage area. Fantauzza stated that it is a completely
fenced -in area on grade with the employee pavement. It is intended for new trailer sales
and machine cartons which are recycled. Fantauzza stated that they can pave it, but it
will be out of public view, and screened with opaque fencing. Fantauzza suggested Class
5 as an alternative.
Schibonski asked about the conditional use permit for minor auto repair. O'Neill stated
that use is what fits their motorcycle repair best by code. Schibonski stated that he
doesn't have a problem with a durable surface material rather than asphalt in the fenced
storage area.
O'Neill asked Fantauzza to describe the band of trees along Chelsea. Fantauzza
responded that the trees are along the employee parking area. They are planning to leave
in the balance of the front area in a natural state, as that is back of building.
Drasgten asked Fantauzza if he had seen Exhibit Z and if there were any issues meeting
the conditions. Fantauzza replied that he only concern was the outdoor storage surface.
Dragsten asked if the building would be constructed of tip -up concrete. Fantauzza
confirmed. Dragsten asked about the columns material. Fantauzza responded that they
would be made of composite aluminum panel. The building would be white, with
aluminum, metal and glass accents.
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Dragsten asked about the back of building, as it faces Chelsea. Fantauzza responded that
there will be vertical spacing to break the back up. Dragsten inquired about the location
of the trash enclosure. Fantauzza illustrated the location, hidden behind loading dock.
Hearing no further comment, Chairman Dragsten closed the public hearing.
Spartz recognized that they have made provisions for extending parking, which shows
forethought and makes sense. He stated that he would still like to add to Exhibit Z the
requirement for revised parking calculations for staff oversight.
Schibonski stated that he did not believe a hard surface would be needed in the fended
storage area, as long as it doesn't create dust.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SPARTZ TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR MOON MOTORSPORTS TO ALLOW FOR
OPEN AND OUTDOOR STORAGE, OUTDOOR SALES AND DISPLAY, AND
LIGHT AUTO REPAIR, BASED ON A FINDING THAT THE PROPOSED USES
MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF THE B-4 DISTRICT, SUBJECT TO THE
CONDITIONS OUTLINED IN EXHIBIT Z.
1. The applicant shall provide design details of proposed fencing.
2.
The applicant shall verify the turning radius for trucks entering and exiting the loading
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dock.
3.
The applicant shall provide at least one additional space for handicapped parking.
4.
The outdoor storage area shall be covered with a Class 5 surface — curbing is not
required.
5.
The landscape plan shall be modified to illustrate that each individual lighting standard is
landscaped.
6.
The total area of the five individual product identification signs and one wall business
identification sign shall equal 100 square feet or less.
7.
Grading, Drainage, Erosion Control and Utility Plans are subject to review and comment
by the City Engineer.
8.
Wherever fuel pumps are to be installed, the applicants shall comply with safety
installations in accordance with the City Building Official and Fire Department.
9.
Revised parking calculations are to be provided to illustrate adequate parking as noted.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SCHIBONSKI. MOTION CARRIED,
4-0.
Dragsten asked what they will do with old building. Erickson stated that they are not
planning on selling the building at this time.
Commissioner Suchy rejoined the meeting.
7. Public Heariniz — Consideration of a request for an. Amendment to the Monticello Zoning
Ordinance reWatim directional simajae or identification sins for institutional uses in
tothe P-S, Public Semi -Public District. Apulicant: Resurrection Lutheran Church
E?
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Thompson presented the staff report, stating that by the current sign regulations, the
applicant is allowed one identification sign. In this case, the applicant is seeking an
amendment to allow two more signs, which creates a conflict with both size and setback.
To allow the signs as proposed by the applicant, the City needs to amend one of two
regulations. Staff would recommend an amendment to the number of institutional and
identification signs rather than directional signage.
Dragsten inquired how much further the two signs would need to come back. Thompson
stated that they may be within public ROW. Anderson stated that they are on private
property. Schumann recommended reviewing the site survey to determine location.
Spartz asked how the applicant's current sign fits within the ordinance. Thompson stated
that the current sign fits within the ordinance requirements. The corner sign is 18 square
feet. The two proposed are 36 square feet each.
Chairman Dragsten opened the public hearing.
Anderson commented on behalf of Resurrection Church that the signs proposed are
consistent with what is happening in progressive churches in trying to give a visual image
to those who pass by. The major part of the signs proposed are actually interchangeable
banners.
Dragsten asked if these can be put anywhere else and meet the ordinance. O'Neill stated
that they cannot under the PS zoning district. The PS District allows semi-public uses
nearer to residential areas.
Schumann clarified that the signs had already been put up as part of the temporary sign
ordinance and are allowable at this time under that ordinance.
O'Neill noted that this may set a precedent for other districts. The requested total sign
area would be about 90 feet, more than what would be allowed in some commercial
areas. In no commercial area do we allow more than one per property.
Posusta stated that he would like to see this happen as the size of the property is a valid
part of consideration.
Dragsten stated that the question is not whether this request may seem appropriate in this
circumstance, the concern is setting precedent.
Spartz stated his concern is precedent setting for other churches on similarly larger
parcels.
Anderson stated that they would appreciate any consideration. The intent is to follow the
temporary sign ordinance with the hope of an amendment.
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O'Neill stated that the Commission could limit the number of signs to the number of right
of way, or discuss minimum lot size.
The Commissioners briefly discussed the merits and drawbacks of sign limitations based
on lot size or frontage.
Schibonski stated that he would be in favor of allowing a sign per frontage, but limit the
size of each sign. Dragsten asked if he would be concerned about lot size. Schibonski
referred to fairness to other churches. Dragsten suggested perhaps limiting signage to the
number of access points. Spartz referred to the possibility of subsequent requests for
variance for access points.
O'Neill commented that if the Commission is going to make a determination based on
exposure, they should consider frontage.
Hilgart asked how the sign was measured. Anderson indicated that measuring the metal
frame from the top to the "welcome" area, the sign is 36' in area. The face area of the
banner is only 24'. Hilgart stated that he would agree with signage based on a public
road right of way for a 10 acre site or larger. All the signs would need to meet setback.
Schibonski stated that he would recommend a maximum of 2 signs, no matter what size
of the site.
0 Hearing no further comment, Chairman Dragsten closed the public hearing.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SPARTZ TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF AN
AMENDMENT, ALLOWING AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER AND SIZE OF
INSTITUTIONAL IDENTIFICATION SIGNAGE TO THE PS ZONING DISTRICT
TO ALLOW 2 SIGNS AT A MAXIMUM OF 75 SQUARE FEET EACH IN
ADDITION TO EXISTING IDENTIFICATION SIGNS.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SCHIBONSKI. MOTION CARRIED,
5-0.
8. Comprehensive Plan Update
O'Neill stated that previously the Commission had considered an amendment that asked
the Planning Commission to redesignate the YMCA area from a combination of open
space and R-1 A to a park space designation.
O'Neill explained that some months ago, the YMCA indicated an interest in selling the
open space for development. They contacted City and County in this regard. In terms of
the land use plan, the site was designated as open space, as it was presumed it would stay
that way. The Council established a task force to look at the possibility of purchasing the
property. The City and County have had good discussion with the YMCA. The YMCA
did an appraisal. In the meantime, the task force has been authorized by the Council and
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County to negotiate with the YMCA to purchase the site. Additionally, the City has
increased its park dedication fee, which allows the City to pay for the cost of the property
over time. O'Neill explained that having the site designated as park gives the City the
rationale for increasing the fee.
O'Neill summarized that staff is before the Planning Commission to determine to what
extent they are supportive of this concept and in applying the additional fee. The City
does have the authority to designate the land as parkland and to designate it as open
space, if we have a vision for what it should be. There is a responsibility to pay for it at a
fair price. O'Neill stated that it is a major goal of the Council to work toward finding a
fair price so that the YMCA can feel good about the purchase. O'Neill stated that the
intent is not to diminish the land value. The intent is to identify it as park land to start
building the purchase fund.
O'Neill noted that the YMCA did have representatives present at the meeting.
Chairman Dragsten opened the public hearing.
Brian Kirk addressed the Commission as a representative for the YMCA of Metro
Minneapolis and Camp Manitou. Kirk stated that he is present to register the YCMA's
concerns regarding recognizing the YMCA area as designated park, before the City and
YCMA have an opportunity to negotiate a fair market value. Kirk stated that he
understands that at some point it will need to be designated, but changing it at this time
could have an adverse affect on the fair market value. If the City and County can't fund
the whole parcel, that leaves the YMCA in position to need to change the designation.
Kirk stated that the YMCA would request the Commission postpone action until the
parties can negotiate.
Kirk presented to the Commission a letter stating the YMCA's position from the Larkin
Hoffman, attorneys, for the record.
O'Neill stated that from a City standpoint, we are not obligated to ensure the highest
value for a property owner's land. If it is decided that it should be parkland, the
designation is needed within the comp plan. If the City leaves it open, you are letting the
market plan for you. Designation of appropriate uses is an essential function of City
planning.
Posusta stated it isn't any different than other areas shown as guided. Someone might
not want any kind of designation, if they don't feel it fits.
Suchy stated that her position has grown stronger that the YMCA is an amenity that
needs to be preserved for the community. The Commission needs to look out for the
City's best interests.
Spartz believes that the YMCA property is real estate and is subject to the markets
isperception of location. He stated that any designation the City gives it will not change
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the value. Spartz stated that he thinks this would be a tremendous asset and would be an
amenity for business and residential relocation, too.
Hilgart inquired why it is guided as open space as it wasn't intended to be developed.
O'Neill responded that it was presumed that the YMCA's commitment was to retain the
property indefinitely. It was never designated specifically as park for that reason.
Posusta commented that the comp plan is a guide that the City strives to meet. It isn't
necessarily that it can never be changed. O'Neill stated that the designation does give the
City the ability to charge the higher park dedication fee today. That is a primary reason
for designating the area as park.
Thompson explained that to designate the area as park land, it would need -a comp plan
amendment, -which requires a supermajority vote of the City Council. O'Neill stated that
Silver Springs is similar situation if Heritage's project is to move forward.
Posusta stated that some parts of the YCMA land are not in the annexation area and that
the township would have to agree to that. Posusta stated that they would only agree to
that if 75% of this section is already developed. They would not hesitate to let it become
part of the park system. Posusta noted that the County has stated that for their
participation, they require a large area.
Hilgart asked if Heritage would have to go first in order for the YMCA to be annexed.
O'Neill stated that they are unrelated. O'Neill stated that to develop, the YMCA would
need City approvals and require annexation. There is the ability for the City to withhold
services. The City could say it is not going to serve the area with utilities. In response,
the YMCA could sell it to an individual who will sit on it until the City position changes.
O'Neill stated that we all have a vested interest in working together. Designating it as
park land, affords the City the opportunity to build a fund for its purchase.
Hilgart stated that he is trying to figure out if the land is really worth as much as they
think it is. Developers are saying they can't afford development and land prices are
going down. Hilgart suggested that perhaps the land isn't worth what people think it is.
O'Neill explained that the task force will be spending 2-8 weeks working on establishing
a fair price. We are looking at development ability, highland areas, shoreline regulations
in relationship to what is a realistic number of buildings. The task force will use that to
develop a value. Posusta stated that in reality there is about 700 acres of developable
land.
O'Neill stated that the Council has been visionary in saying that they think this will be
park in the long run and authorizing staff to work with the YMCA. The comp plan policy
would follow the momentum of the Council.
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Hilgart stated that if the Commission does this, he doesn't want to say value should have
to go down. Whether it is park or open space, it seems like the City has same control, but
the designation is the key to funding the purchase.
O'Neill stated that if the task force comes up with a number and the YMCA isn't
interested, then the County and City can have a clear conscience in allowing development
to occur.
Hilgart commented that it should be noted that any development should be low density
with R-1 A standards.
Schibonski stated that the City should thank the YMCA for their- consideration for a City
purchase. He indicated that his initial thought was that we should call for a moratorium
to allow the comp plan update catch up. He stated that he thinks there is a good chance
that it will become parkland, but the City can't be sure until we have comp plan process
with whole City involved. A moratorium on development would give the City doesn't
time to finish the comp plan.
Dragsten asked Kirk for a timeframe on a sale. Kirk stated that it is the YMCA's intent
to sell as soon as possible. However, the YCMA is willing to be patient and willing to
negotiate with the City.
Dragsten stated that his comment on this is that while it would make a great parkland
area, he has a hard time with this when a property owner asks not to have it designated.
This is especially true because we don't know that we can acquire it. Dragsten noted that
we currently have no mechanism to purchase it. He stated that seems to step on the rights
of the property owner. Dragsten stated that in his opinion, the Commission should table
the decision, recommend the moratorium, or leave it as is.
O'Neill stated that the City Council and County are very supportive of it being a park. In
some respect, it is not in doubt, in their minds. The City has the authority to identify it as
such. A moratorium does make sense if there is a debate going on. O'Neill stated that a
moratorium is typically involved when there is more of a grey area.
Schibonski stated that it seems that the funding is the concern. Posuta stated that the City
addressed funding that when we raised park fees. Schibonski clarified that the Council
did raise the fee. Posusta confirmed and stated that the number might be too low.
Posusta stated that YMCA park development couldn't happen without the County's
participation. It can't be developed in pieces.
Dragsten stated that he doesn't know why the City can't enter into an agreement for first
right of refusal. Dragsten stated that he doesn't have anything against the idea, but he
doesn't feel it's right to designate it as a park, as it infringes on the YMCA's rights.
Posusta stated that in that case, then perhaps we shouldn't even be doing a comp plan,
because we might be stepping on people's toes.
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SSuchy stated that our job is to protect the City and determine how to plan the City.
Dragsten responded that the comp plan is a needed tool, but the City also needs to look at
property rights.
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O'Neill stated that the function of a planning effort is to determine appropriate land uses.
Dragsten stated that the change to the comp plan seems more reactionary than visionary.
Kirk stated that the development rights are what they are, the YMCA isn't asking the
Commission to postpone the decision to drive up the value, we just want to get through
negotiations. The concern is that once the land is designated as park, the City can sit on
it, as long as they wish. Until we get to the point for a City purchase, the current
designation allows the YMCA greater flexibility.
Posusta asked if the designation truly matters. O'Neill stated that the City Council has to
grapple with the issue. They need to substantiate the higher fee.
Schibonski referred again to a moratorium. He stated that he doesn't know if the
Commission has enough information to make a decision. In the meantime, developers
are coming in, and the City could be losing the revenue stream. Schibonski asked if there
is other land the City intends to purchase for park. O'Neill responded that there is not at
this time. Posusta stated the decision is the City's on whether developers contribute land
or money. He indicated that the City would choose money only based on the YCMA
scenario.
Hilgart asked how far apart the City and YMCA are in purchase price. O'Neill reported
that the City appraisal has been ordered. Kirk stated that the YMCA has been open to
land study and information on the property. O'Neill stated that our next step is for the
City to finish the appraisal and then begin to negotiate price.
Hilgart asked if the City does change the designation, is it feasible that the City would
know if they are going to purchase the land or not. Spartz suggested that the designation
be triggered by a purchase agreement.
Hilgart stated that the City doesn't have anything to loose if it isn't redesignated now.
Posusta stated that we have to be able to tell developers how much park dedication per
unit. Hilgart stated that the City could change it right now, but if a purchase falls
through, they'll have redesignated without justification for the increase. O'Neill stated
that the designation could stay, the City would then need to negotiate with whomever
buys it. O'Neill stated that the City doesn't have as much leverage to collect funds on
something designated as open space.
O'Neill stated that it is a bold step, but it could be the signature park that could drive
many good things for the community. Planning is about having a vision for your town.
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Schibonski referred again to the moratorium idea, suggesting an interim designation until
comp plan is done, that way, the YMCA could see a definite end date for a decision.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SCHIBONSKI TO RECOMMEND
CLASSIFICATION OF THE MONTICELLO YMCA AREA AS PARK AS AN
INTERIM DESIGNATION, TO ALLOW FOR THE COLLECTION OF PARK
DEDICATION FEES TO BE USED TOWARD PARK PURCHASE. THE
RECOMMENDATION IS SUBJECT TO A FINAL DETERMINATION TO BE MADE
AS PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE AND IS SUBJECT TO
FURTHER PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW AT THAT TIME.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SPARTZ. MOTION CARRIED, 3-2,
WITH COMMISSIONERS SUCHY AND DRAGSTEN IN DISSENT.-
9. Consideration to appoint two Commissioner to serve on the Comprehensive Plan Update
Task Force.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SUCHY TO APPOINT COMMISSIONERS
DRAGSTEN AND SUCHY TO THE TASK FORCE, WITH COMMISSIONER
SCHIBONSKI SERVING AS AN ALTERNATE.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HILGART. MOTION CARRIED, 5-0.
0 10. Adjourn.
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MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SPARTZ TO ADJOURN.
MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SUCHY. MOTION CARRIED, 5-0.
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